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Powerlessness

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 1562

Yes, thats exactly what we need to deal with. Our own voice. We carry too much baggage. We have a simple process of putting the resentments, fear, relationship issues and have someone look at it and help us find the selfishness self-centeredness around around each instance. We then see the tragedy of the ego. How we are entangled in the mind. We lose consciousness as Eckhart calls it. The program can be reduced to clean house, find god (consciousness/awareness/mindfulness.......) and help others.

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 421

I think that's a point everyone agrees on. The problem really starts in the mind. That AV is powerful it can talk us into lots of bad situations.

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 1562

True, people who have not gone through the 'peculiar mental twist', may not understand the "powerlessness" concepts. If you look inside the stories, the characters depicted in the material all showed that peculiar mental twist when it comes to the 1st drink. The man of thirty guy thought i could handle liquor safely after 30 years of abstinence and the quickly dies. The car salesman 'suddenly' gets the idea that he can mix whiskey in milk on a full stomach it wont hurt. And finally the Accountant had a wonderful day 'not a cloud on the horizon', he too got caught in that lie 'just a couple' syndrome.

The book never blames alcohol, it pegs the problem on the mind:

These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body (the craving piece).

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 54

Foxman,

Great reading, that link. Thanks for sharing. I too am not quite sold on the 'powerless' thing, though the anecdotes are very compelling and insightful (and yup, a bit familiar, some of them).

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 1562

Cryptkeeper (a.k.a. David)

Thats true. Around this time, 10 years ago, I came to the realization I can't go on like this. That realization, some may call it surrender came and I am so glad it did and led me to a group therapy and then it let me to a shrink who was already part of AA with about 25 years sobriety. I didn't know then and he led me to AA. And then with bit of a struggle, I ran into some great workshops. Within AA there are personalities that don't subscribe to these workshops. They term them "gurus", big book nazis, steppers...and so on and so forth. But I can honestly say, even today, I learn more from these free workshops on the xa-speakers and on youtube.

The link I provided earlier is my 10 years of understanding of these concepts, its work workshops we conduct at our homegroup. We thought we will add a visual to depict the vicious cycle. So if you look at it, on the left is end of the last drink spree. (you could include all sorts of sprees-blackout, car wreck, divorce, separation.....just not death). Then you resolutely make oath: I am done. And then with vigor you seek help and then slowly the internal un-manageability creeps in.....we get angry, depressed...............and then you hit the blind spot. At that moment you don't think of the consequences......all you are focused on is that 1st drink..... you pick up that first one.......and then you are off to the races..... you go bar hopping... you become invincible, you can handle any problem at hand but then you wake up next day with guilt, remorse.......

Thats the vicious cycle we wanted to illustrate.

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 154

Good morning to my forum friends and fellow alcoholics, Foxman and toxicsoul, and to all my other forum friends (I do hope you can consider me your friend, or at the very least fellow sufferer of this dreaded disease we call alcoholism).

Foxman, as usual, your words are timely, prudent, encouraging and trustworthy...thank you.

If you have not already recognized it toxicsoul (I'm sure you have, so forgive me for even writing the foregoing phrase), Foxman has been a major contributor (now sober for, I could be mistaken, close to if not more than 10 years) to this forum since October 2008 (almost 8 years).

I have read many of his posts, and have had the privilege to share with him since I joined this forum in November 2013, in the middle of one of the deepest, darkest periods of my life...depression and anxiety unimaginable when I think back to that time and for three years thereafter, with three suicide attempts, the last one in October 2015, which brought me to within an inch of death were it not for the grace and mercy of our Heavenly Father who, I imagine, has other purposes for me being alive today.

As we (Foxman and I) have both been sharing for a few weeks now, Eckhart Tolle (ET), the author of The Power of Now and other spiritually enlightening books, would term a lot of what we have been discussing and what you, toxicsoul, are referring to below as a classic case of "We no longer have control over our own minds (we do obviously have a significant amount of control, but certainly not for things concerning our perception of alcoholism for sure), but rather the opposite, the mind has taken control over us."

And we are not our minds; it is but an instrument, God-given to aid us in our earthly journey, a means to an end if you prefer. The problem is that the mind (ET refers to it as a "machine"), instead of serving its intended Godly purpose, has surreptitiously (i.e. done in a secret or sneaky and subtle manner) taken over us and our ability to think and perceive clearly.

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 1562

TS,

The powerlessness has 2 parts. Mental and Physical part. The mental part is, I couldn't stay away from alcohol. My mind would always come up with some excuse to justify that I needed a drink today. Thats why the material we created for step 1 we emphasize the importance of realizing that key part of powerlessness. We don't spend too much time on the "quantity" we drink.

You talked about knowing that they add Roundup would make you think. I doubt it will. Let me share my experience. Its kind of similar. My cholestrol level was at its peak and when my doctor prescribed medication that strictly said I can't drink. My mind said, I will not drink those heavier, high alcohol content beers, I will drink only Michelob low carb beers. I would buy 24 pack cans and I will drink that within 2-3 days and eventually will go back to the heavier ones. Always the mind. Thats the insanity. What we mean by being restored to sanity is not that we are coo koo, its just that when it comes to alcohol we chicken out. We may be smart, intelligent and wise and all other areas but drinking.

The 12 step process gives you courage to look inside. You drop the guilt, remorse, resentments, fear and as you keep practicing those, your awareness/consciousness whatever you may label it increases. Thats all there is.

The obsession gets lifted. It does not drive my life anymore. What a relief. I dont have to worry about the quantity anymore. Because, I don't have desire to drink in the first place.

Check out the below link. We also broke down the un-manageability into 2 parts. Internal and external unmanageability. Again we have to worry about the Internal un-manageability. The one I pointed out. Guilt, remorse....restlessness, irritability........ Thats why step 1 is a very important one. Without that a person cannot proceed further.

http://www.tinyurl.com/aafirststep

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 154

Good evening toxicsoul,

I always respect other's perceptions and beliefs, however, I beg to differ with your claim that we have "POWER" over our alcoholism.

The two first basic tenets of AA's 12-step program read as follows:

1) "We admit that we were "POWERLESS" over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable; and

2) "Came to believe that a "POWER" greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

for 8 år siden 0 +0 / -0 345

I often hear certain individuals on this site insist that we are powerless against alcohol. I simply cannot believe that is so. Even though I’ve been here for over two years and have not attained my original goal of complete abstinence and then later revised to moderation, does not mean I’m powerless. I recognize my pattern would suggest that I lack “control” once I have a glass of wine, but in reality, I’m not powerless. Fact is if I really wanted to, I do have the self control to stop at that one glass of wine and have done so many times. However, my unattained goal to moderate is not because I’m powerless, it’s that I do not see any point in having just one glass of wine, as there’s no reward.

So, my pattern is to drink until I get that reward and then I strive to maintain that reward. I get to zone out and feel that bit of numbness for a while. It’s a maladaptive behavior and a bad habit to be sure but it’s a choice I make, convincing myself that it’s far more enjoyable than it actually is. But powerlessness it’s not. Further, how does anyone even go about admitting powerlessness and deferring to a higher power? That power is within us. Exactly how do you surrender to yourself?

I recognize I need to abstain if for no other reason than to preserve my health. I am into clean eating and can’t even look at processed food, or conventionally produced meat without breaking them down into their chemical components. I have recently found out that there is Roundup along with a plethora of other detrimental chemicals in wine, at least the stuff I was drinking and that really bothered me. Drinking alcohol was one thing, but drinking roundup? Begs the question, is it the alcohol that causes the problems or is it all the crap they use to produce the product?

Nonetheless, this new knowledge has empowered me as I will now look at a bottle of wine in a whole different way. Knowledge is power.

Perhaps that is where the surrender comes in?

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