Dagens vigtigste diskussioner

logo

A Major Milestone for Humanitarian Digital Health!

Evolution

2025-08-13 12:36 AM

Medlemsgruppe angst

logo

The Patchwork Quilt of Addiction

Timbo637

2025-06-29 5:59 PM

Medlemsgruppe rygning

logo

What food is actually considered Healthy..?

Evolution

2025-03-03 11:17 AM

Medlemsgruppe idealvægt

logo

Health Educators or Moderators missing?

Evolution

2025-03-03 11:16 AM

Medlemsgruppe rygning

Denne måneds Førende:

Mest Hjælpsomme

Mest Aktive

Fik flest Hjerter

Browse gennem 411.779 emner i 47.071 indlæg

162.163 medlemmer

Velkommen til vores nye medlemmer: Tkunchapu, bbsolomon04, Ocean001, Purple87!, olbontra

Smoke-Free or Smoke-Free-Wannabe?


Eva
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
Eva
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 16 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I don't post much, mostly read a lot of posts .. But when I came upon this post I felt that I just needed to add my 2 cents worth. I absolutely, 100%, agree with Gen - [quote] What's the point of posting on here and being part of this support group if we can't feel able to admit to a small slip-up on the road to 'recovery' without the severe punishment of being sent back to the beginning of the journey when all that might be needed is a boost back into the saddle. [/quote] I think what she has stated here is of utmost importance when it comes to a support group... Operative word "support". We are all recovering, and will be life long recovering nicotine addicts. We slip, we fall, and hopefully we get back into the saddle again and again until we get it right. This is one damn hard addiction so I think we should all simply embrace the fact that we are all human and give a pat on the back to those who do slip and encourage them to move forward and forgive their indiscretion. Just my humble opinion.... Eva [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 11/30/2006 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 162 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 3,248 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $1458 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 18 [B]Hrs:[/B] 6 [B]Mins:[/B] 14 [B]Seconds:[/B] 52

  • Quit Meter

    $391,952.81

    Amount Saved

  • Quit Meter

    Days: 6564 Hours: 9

    Minutes: 4 Seconds: 11

    Life Gained

  • Quit Meter

    45923

    Smoke Free Days

  • Quit Meter

    1,377,690

    Cigarettes Not Smoked

genevieve
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
genevieve
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 1056 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
As predicted there are many points of view on Ki's post. I've given it a lot of thought and was reminded of the alcohal support group I attended 3 years ago when I came out of hospital. There we did all sorts of exercises and one of these included a wheel and you had to place yourself on this wheel according to where you were on your journey. Slips counted as just that - a slip on the road to full 'recovery' but relapses took you right back to the beginning to begin the process over again and I think that is the point here. A slip is a thing to be regretted - and avoided - but if it happens you should encourage people to keep right on and maybe the suggestion of altering your quit date by a day is the way to go. A relapse - more than just a couple on more than one day should take the quit meter back to the start and I think there a quite a few people on the site who have had the honesty to do this. This is the other matter. Honesty. What's the point of posting on here and being part of this support group if we can't feel able to admit to a small slip-up on the road to 'recovery' without the severe punishment of being sent back to the beginning of the journey when all that might be needed is a boost back into the saddle. Gen [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 3/28/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 44 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 709 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] �308 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 5 [B]Hrs:[/B] 19 [B]Mins:[/B] 5 [B]Seconds:[/B] 43
mitri
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
mitri
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 307 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I guess that our final goal is to become again smoke free, as we were before poisoning ourselves. Now the quit meter and the rest of it take part of our journey supplies. Until our mind oscillate between wanting a cigarette and feeling guilty having it, we remain, at least half, adicted. At this point changing the quit meter or not is pointless. Instead these moments of failure could enrich us with a better understanding of what we really want and why, through which we hopefully could stop being addicted physically and mentally altogether. PS: Every morning I look at my quit meter and feel thankful and happy (guess if it�s fake or not ;))!!! [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 2/4/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 96 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 481 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $96 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 13 [B]Hrs:[/B] 5 [B]Mins:[/B] 58 [B]Seconds:[/B] 13

  • Quit Meter

    $298,499.50

    Amount Saved

  • Quit Meter

    Days: 6075 Hours: 10

    Minutes: 55 Seconds: 30

    Life Gained

  • Quit Meter

    45923

    Smoke Free Days

  • Quit Meter

    918,460

    Cigarettes Not Smoked

Lainey
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
Lainey
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 3875 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hey Sparky, I appreciate your honesty. It is a hard topic to discuss and more people should pop in here and say what they feel. I guess it all depends on how you look at that quit meter. It means different things to different people. To me, it's my motivation, I waiting for it to grow each day and tell me I am doing great, and to show me where I am, so I would hate to have to reset, and that is a big part in keeping me smoke free! If it's just a counter for some folks, than I guess thats OK too, as Danielle says it's our quit, individual and unique to each person, and is a tool to use as the individual sees fit. This will pop up inevitably every time there is a slip on the site. :) [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 3/5/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 66 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 1,669 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $696.3 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 8 [B]Hrs:[/B] 1 [B]Mins:[/B] 26 [B]Seconds:[/B] 32
Jean49
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
Jean49
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 517 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thanks angelcapp ... Jean [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 4/5/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 35 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 891 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $358.75 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 4 [B]Hrs:[/B] 0 [B]Mins:[/B] 12 [B]Seconds:[/B] 22
angelcapp
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
angelcapp
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 948 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Jean Hang in there, you are doing great. Protecting your quit and doing what is right for you is what is most important. Like we always say here, do what you need to do to get you through. If that means, screaming, then sream, if it means breaking some dishes, then break some dishes. I can't tell you how many times I just sat there and cried and cried and cried. But it got me through and it will you too. We all love you here and want to help you get through and onto better days. :) [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 3/1/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 70 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 1,766 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $350 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 7 [B]Hrs:[/B] 11 [B]Mins:[/B] 32 [B]Seconds:[/B] 49
Jean49
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
Jean49
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 517 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Well .. I just read your post Ki and I'm sort of stuck in the 50-50 opinion on this. I think if I had slipped with several cigarettes, or several days I would see it more as a relapse than a slip. For me it was 2 cigarettes, not several or several days of smoking so I consider it a slip and yes, my quit meter is extremely motivational for me.. All of that being said, if it's even making any sense at all.. I've changed my quit meter ahead one whole day as angelcapp had suggested. Good idea angelcapp. We're all on the honour system here. There could be people who have completely relapsed for an entire week or several weeks and not even mention it. I just wanted to come clean with myself (in the written word) and to the friends I have met here. Letting my friends know will then provide me with the support I'm really needing right now. It can all get very complicated.. and all I know is that I've done what is best for me with my quit therefore keeping me quit. It's a positive thing rather than a negative thing. I'm quite muddled right now.. sure hope some of what I've expressed made some sense. Jean p.s. Still smoke free and new quit date of April 5/07 (ahead 1 day) [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 4/5/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 35 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 891 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $358.75 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 4 [B]Hrs:[/B] 0 [B]Mins:[/B] 9 [B]Seconds:[/B] 50
2stubborn2smoke
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
2stubborn2smoke
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 154 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thats a clever idea! I agree it is questionable whether or not to reset your meter but I think the purpose of it is to motivate you NOT to slip. I mean, every day you look at it and are reminded of all the time you have put between yourself and your last sickarette. There are stages to a quit and I must sorrowfully admit that a slip pushes you back through some of these. The need for nicotine has been reawakened and becomes hungry so the quitter must go through the worst withdrawal symptoms all over again. If it were me I would reset, but it is reasonable to believe a reset would discourage a smoker. Everyone has different motivations and this site is meant to propel them - not to be a competition of quit meters. We just need to continue being supportive of one another because we have alllll been at the place where someone told us we HAD to quit yada yada which made us want to smoke more. Putting pressure on people to reset their quit meter may have the same detrimental "i don't have to do anything.." effect and may cause more harm than good... Just do what is right for you, your quit is yours and the only one you have control over. It is not keeping with the sites accepting supportive environment to question people's "quit meter etiquette" [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 10/9/2006 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 213 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 2,349 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $754.02 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 14 [B]Hrs:[/B] 2 [B]Mins:[/B] 49 [B]Seconds:[/B] 59

  • Quit Meter

    $551,076.00

    Amount Saved

  • Quit Meter

    Days: 4358 Hours: 10

    Minutes: 31 Seconds: 13

    Life Gained

  • Quit Meter

    45923

    Smoke Free Days

  • Quit Meter

    688,845

    Cigarettes Not Smoked

angelcapp
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
angelcapp
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 948 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I think for those who have slipped, instead of changing the meter to 0 why not just deduct the days they smoked, so If you only smoked once on one day you only deduct 1 day. After all, all those other days really were smoke free. :) [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 3/1/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 70 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 1,765 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $350 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 7 [B]Hrs:[/B] 11 [B]Mins:[/B] 22 [B]Seconds:[/B] 1
Sparky
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
Sparky
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
  • My Logo
for 18 år siden 0 3307 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thank you very much!! I was going to post my opinion, but was afraid of being deleted. That meter means the world to me and each time I had to reset it reminded me of what I did. I did not loose those day that I quit smoking, but I did aquire a new start date. There are some here know exactly how I feel and I can not express it here. I may have had to reset and reset, but my meter is a ture fact of how many days I have been smoke free. The last time I smoked I thought I could just keep on going and not tell anyone. That was pure hell for me. I would rather reset and be honest to who I am. Just my opionion. Again, Ki thanks Sparky [B]My Milage:[/B] [B]My Quit Date: [/B] 4/30/2007 [B]Smoke-Free Days:[/B] 10 [B]Cigarettes Not Smoked:[/B] 105 [B]Amount Saved:[/B] $30 [B]Life Gained:[/B] [B]Days:[/B] 1 [B]Hrs:[/B] 10 [B]Mins:[/B] 14 [B]Seconds:[/B] 54

This thread is locked.


Læser dennne tråd:

We use cookies to help us learn about how our platform is used and how we can improve your experience. To learn more please see our Privatlivspolitik og Vilkår for Brug.

Flere oplysninger